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“If we are led by words,
they are our masters instead of our servants:
they become tyrants, driving us as conscripts headlong
into their own wordy wars:
and this has been at least an element in some of our past controversies.
When we define them so as to remove ambiguities, we make them our servants:
we limit their scope and power, and bring them under our dominion
instead of ourselves being under theirs.”
What's New?
June 2008 Let's Have Clarity: Adam Was 'Neither Mortal nor Immortal' Before Sin Entered the World!
June 18th 2008 June 17th 2008 A word to those who can learn from history: "As to the nature of the resurrection-body in relation to the past—it is the same body—not the same atoms of course. The living body from babyhood to old age, perhaps, was never composed of the same atoms for two moments of time together. It is nothing to God to reproduce a man’s character in a body that will be as much the man as ever he was in mortal life. The comparison that some have made between the resurrection-body and Adam before he sinned is altogether wide of the mark, for all the resurrected have the memories of sin and death, of which Adam before he sinned knew nothing. We have nothing at all to do with 'Adam before he sinned.' Neither had the Lord Jesus. And much mischief follows a wrong comparison, as has been grievously illustrated in the controversies of bye-gone days." (C. C. Walker, The Christadelphian, 1906, p. 555)
June 12th, 2008 Brother John Ullman's Teaching on When the Lord's Body Was Cleansed
Catechesis Again... or "When Was 'the Jesus-Holy of Holies Lustrated'?"
A Statement by John Wilson of His Beliefs
The Australian Unity Basis "Not Sufficient" — H.P. Mansfield, 1972June 9th, 2008 Did the Lord Rise from the Grave with the Same Nature He Crucified?
June 7th, 2008 Why I believe the Lord came forth from the grave mortal
To any who read this: If you read this and agree or disagree, please write me and tell me what and why you believe the way you do. Do you have other thoughts or proofs?
June 4th, 2008 The Lampstand Magazine's Mythical "Andrewism" — May-June 2008 issue.
May 26th, 2008 The Lampstand magazine — Promoting Factual Errors on Behalf of Clean-flesh. The Lampstand magazine, in its March-April 2008 issue, spent roughly 24 pages of the magazine on the subject of the atonement. I submit to interested readers a few historical proofs that the editor and the article authors of The Lampstand are engaged in promoting historical errors on behalf of the clean-flesh heresy.
January 19, 2008 A number of brethren have asked about The Christadelphian DVD working with Adobe Acrobat/Reader 8. Assuming you are already using the DVD on a particular computer here's what you need to do to update it:
Download pdftopagenum. Unzip the EXE file and place it in your C:\Windows\System32 subdirectory. Overwrite the old EXE with this new file. That's it.
You can also use this updated program with Adobe Acrobat / Reader 6.x and 7.x and it is a little faster than the old version so I recommend updating your copy.
October 29th 2007 From a recent exchange...
Berean: "I don't know if you guys ["Central"] even acknowledge the complaint one sometimes hear about you."
Central: "Besides that we harbor errorist, we compromise everything, we look for followings, we are too social, we are too unloving, are too strict with standards, we are too loose with standards, we call evil good and good evil, and yes, we cannot deal with sinners, I don't really know what anyone could complain about. What have you heard?"
October 22nd 2007 If you are using a Macintosh based computer running OS X (PowerPC or Intel) and you have The Christadelphian Bookshelf, I've created a program for the Mac called pdfpn. I wrote a similar program for the PC, by the same name, which allows you to click on PDF file links and it will open the PDF file and then cause the PDF viewer (Adobe Acrobat or Reader) to go to a specific page. I used pdfpn links on main page for The Christadelphian Bookshelf. They appear as pdfpn://AA|NUMBER|File Name|Page Number
If you'd like to get a copy of pdfpn for the Mac which will allow you to use The Christadelphian Bookshelf like PC/Windows users please send me an email.
October 20th 2007 October 14th 2007 Jim Phillips, a Berean, has now posted his third round of responses to the first series of questions on fellowship. Jim wants me to, as he writes, "actually make an effort to prove from the Scriptures that withdrawing from error is wrong". Withdrawing from error is a Scriptural command. It is the unionized application of the fellowship principle and the withholding of fellowship from faithful brethren (on that same principle), contrary to Scriptural command, which I object to. Therefore I won't "actually make an effort" to respond to the point beyond this note. I trust thoughtful readers will make an effort to distinguish between the points I have actually made and Jim's answers. When Jim says we agree on something, it's possible he has put words in my mouth which I would not agree with.
Jim would have his readers believe that Bereans today stand where Christadelphians stood in 1898, if not exactly, then very very closely. I have argued that the Berean position is not only unscriptural but against the original Christadelphian position; Bereanism is based on the false premise of unionized ecclesias; and that the published Berean basis of fellowship has evolved and has added new First Principles. Jim may talk all around the issues, accuse me of various unscriptural ideas and of various sins &c. but it doesn't change some very simple facts freely open to investigation by any honest minded individual. The comparison need not be between what I say the Bereans believe but between what the Bereans published in 1923 (p. 238-240), 1928 (p. 227), 1934 (p. 131), 1960 (p. 208-222), 1965 (p. 141-154), 1980 (p. 11-27), 1984, 1986 (p. 11-27), and 1996 (p. 11-27). Readers who put forth a little effort will see that the published Berean position has evolved and at times edited without note. Then compare the modern Berean position with published Christadelphian practices documented in "Ecclesial Intelligence" for 1873, 1885, 1894, and 1898. Readers may choose a single year (from the Christadelphian) or any number of years and they will see the difference in how ecclesias understood and practiced fellowship vs. Berean practices.
Berean attempts to justify their position including the strange explanation in The Berean Ecclesial News for September 2007 of the twenty-seven year, five times, published (not one year, one time published) Berean basis of fellowship and such Berean claims as "No one in the apostolic era, other than Christ, is ever called a 'shepherd'" are damaging to the Berean Fellowship. They indicate that some Bereans are willing to go to any extreme to avoid, literally, black and white (a.k.a. published) facts.
I am sorry, in one sense that the conflict has been the source of some turmoil and disturbance. On the other hand, and more importantly, a longstanding misrepresentation, a misleading and false position has been exposed. For that I, and others, are thankful. Any thoughtful mind struggles with the issue of fellowship at some point and when a plausible position is presented it must be considered. What research has shown is that Bereans and other good-intentioned but misguided separatists have erected a false system on the Christadelphian foundation and under the Christadelphian banner claiming to be that which it was not and condemning everyone else who did not join them. They assumed the premise (unionized ecclesias) they inherited was true. I thought it to be true for a time, as many other brethren have. But it wasn't. It was a 20th century fabrication and any reader of Christadelphian history can prove the premise to be the falsehood that it is (see, for example, my note below for October 2nd).
The conflict with the Bereans has gone on for roughly a year and a month. Jim appears fresh and ready to continue despite the setbacks the Berean position has already suffered. But Jim has only answered 15 of 230 questions I have posed. Those were the "easy" questions. At this point I think the best thing I can do is to indicate to Jim (which I do via this note) that there is no need to wait for further responses from me. There is no need to set time limits waiting for me to respond. I am not sure at this point that I will need to respond to anything else. The Berean modus operandi has been to claim I advocate "open door" fellowship and other predictable mantras — notice their accusations are invariably based on the Berean false premise of unionized ecclesias — which only demonstrate my opponents have no intentions of trying to actually understand the arguments I am making — a personal choice they are free to make now. A time comes when intellectual honesty will not be treated like a luxury. In the mean time, if I see Jim post something of relevance I will comment. If he or other Bereans have any questions they can email them to me. Otherwise the only suggestion I can offer is to allow Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 to rule.
Jim has posted his response here.
Oct 9th 2007 Jim Phillips, a Berean, has admitted in his answer to question #3 of the debate that Berean fellowship practice is not the same as that advocated and practiced by brother Robert Roberts. Of course, he blunts the admission with false wording ("magical" and "formats") and then attempts to justify the change of practice. This is a change of practice no one is supposed to take much notice of or really care about because Jim would have us believe that if you don't support the Berean practice you are either an errorist or a supporter of errorists. Unfortunately for Bereanism, I do not accept Jim's attempt at justifying the change. But I do receive his admission. Not that I needed it to prove the case against the Berean position on fellowship.
Oct 2nd 2007 A few days ago a brother told me he had taken the 1873 Christadelphian magazine and started reading Ecclesial Intelligence from around October 1873 through to (I believe) 1876. His purpose was to see just how Christadelphian ecclesias handled the Renunciationist error. I thought, what a great idea. I took up the project myself reading all Ecclesial Intelligence and Answers to Correspondents along with some of the material concerning Renunciationism. My interest was not so much in the doctrinal exposition but in the actions which were taken by any individual or ecclesia in regards to the error or errorists. I am now in June 1875.
I found that besides Renunciationism, there were at least four or five other errors circulating during that time (I have lost the exact count though I have marked them for future compilation). What is striking about the reading is that if you believe in Unions or Societies of ecclesias you cannot construe ecclesial behavior of this time into Unionized Fellowship behavior, "inter-ecclesial unity of action". Such a thing did NOT exist in the 1870's and no attempt was made to create it.
Instead of the actions of 1923, where an ecclesia withdrew from Temperance Hall and threatened to withdraw from everyone else who did not withdraw, you find "the individual right" being acted upon in case after case, in each ecclesia's due time — not on the dictates of any one person or single ecclesia. Also, withdrawals, when they occurred were (as a rule) withdrawals from local ecclesial members who held the error, not withdrawals from other ecclesias or from the leading errorists E. Turney, W. Ellis etc. (outside of their own ecclesia withdrawing from them). Brethren, apparently, saw no need to issue wide sweeping statements of withdrawal for they did not view themselves as being "in fellowship" with the errorists.
That this was not "inter-ecclesial unity of action" is proved in that these events were still playing out years after the first withdrawal had occured. My friend who suggested the reading project found London acting around July 1876 which he says was about thirty-three months after Birmingham acted.
If you want an interesting experience, I strongly recommend a reading journey starting back in 1873. Besides the details of how and when ecclesias acted (or did not act) you will get a better sense of the labors, trials, sorrows and joys of brethren during that time. I am indebted to the brother who suggested this to me.
My Berean friends can complain of hard-speeches and "personal issues" all they like. But you are doing yourself and the truth a disservice by making such characterizations as serve your own interests. My argument against your position is grounded in apostolic and genuine Christadelphian doctrine and practice. I can assure you that some will receive much harder speeches in the day of judgment than anything a powerless mortal such as myself can inflict. "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves".
Sep 30th 2007 JP of the Bereans: "No one in the apostolic era, other than Christ, is ever called a 'shepherd.'" Updated with quotes from Frank G. Jannaway
Sep 29th 2007 JP of the Bereans has started to answer my debate questions. You can find the details on the first series of questions.
Sep 24th 2007 The Berean Ecclesial News (BEN), September 2007 edition has published an editorial on "The Berean Constitution". The article admits one of the points I have argued: that no published Berean basis of fellowship prior to 1980 included the Common Constitution. Therefore, prior to 1980, there could have been no "matters vital to fellowship" in a Constitution of the Berean Basis of Fellowship because there was no Common Constitution which was collectively held. After reading the BEN article, the expression "May you live in interesting times" comes to mind.
Sep 21th 2007 The material I put together in prospect of debating the Bereans on fellowship can be found online here. Some of the details regarding the debate are located here.
Sep 15th 2007 In doing research for the proposed debate I have come across a number of alterations and misattributions by Berean authors which will be documented on this page. Publishing these issues ahead of time will help my Berean counterparts to better prepare.
Sep 10th 2007 As some readers will already know, I have challenged the Bereans to an online debate of the issues regarding fellowship (the act or state) and Fellowship (the Institution). The Bereans, currently, are saying it will take 7-10 days to decide if they will accept the challenge.
In doing research for the debate I found that, contrary to the research I had done before brother Roberts does use the phrase "doctrine of fellowship" twice: once positively the same year Thomas Haining uses it, and then in 1889 in terms that don't inspire the idea of personal ownership: "This 'doctrine of fellowship' (as it is called) is also carried to an excess never contemplated in apostolic prescription." The correction has been made here.
Aug 24th 2007 Brother John Thomas on 'legal', 'legally', 'federal', 'constitutional', 'constitutionally', 'constituted sinners', 'constitution of sin', 'original sin' &c.
Aug 10th 2007 A brother asked me to research early Christadelphian writings concerning marriage with an unbeliever. Here are some excerpts brethren might find useful.
Aug 9th 2007 The Central Fellowship has been compared to a burning house. How do you respond to this argument?
Aug 8th 2007 Aug 7th 2007 Two Allegories of the Messiah and His Sacrifice from the Life of David
Introduction to Allegories (revised) Handouts: The Scripture Method & Representative Things David and Goliath Handouts Absalom's Rebellion Aug 6th 2007 Jim Phillips, citing the terms "Liberals, Conservatives and Reactionaries" asks the question, "Do terms like these play any role in the Ecclesia?". Two Berean magazines, along with bro. Phillips, repeatedly answer "yes".
Aug 5th 2007 After running into certain false doctrines again I have decided to repost my response to them. The response can be found under the Atonement menu, The Latest Atonement Error
Aug 4th 2007 Aug 3rd 2007 Does the phrase "Son of Man" signify the Lord's authority and dominion only or does it encompass his human descent? Aug 2nd 2007 A Conflict of Visions: A footnote on the Berean Fellowship Position and my article on Liberalism and Reactionary Conservatism.
Jul 13th 2007 Jul 7th 2007 Jun 11th 2007 Jun 3rd 2007 Concerning the "Shofar" Magazine.
Apr 17th 2007 #12: Many people will reject an idea and its evidence, no matter how clear ("even though one rose from the dead"), because they see the implications of the idea or the evidence. They convince themselves they are rejecting it because of faultiness in the ideas or the evidence when the reality is they are rejecting it because of its implications. More here.
Apr 8th 2007 Links to the exhortations from Logos volumes 31-40 & 54 have been added to Literature Links for the Daily Readings. I am working on other volumes. Apr 3rd 2007 Mar 31st 2007 Mar 27th 2007 I did not expect to be documenting doctrinal changes in the Berean community but that's what one of the Questions & Answers turned into. I personally believe there's enough explanation and documentation to show the evolution of Berean thought and practices here:
Since I haven't really looked for it, I suspect you'd find more by doing some searches.
The last couple of arguments laid out against Berean/Separatist ideas on fellowship have been the best. These two arguments were not the product of wanting to write more about fellowship. That is, I didn't go looking for them. They came to me during the course of other reading and research. In previous controversial issues I always felt like the controversy took a fair amount of documentation to make a decisive case. Not so with this one. Berean and Separatist claims are now overthrown, decisively, in two arguments. The other material is useful for clarification, teaching and historical documentation.
- Did brother Roberts work to establish a common Statement of Faith for the brotherhood?
- The Berean Restatement claims to be "The Always-Held Berean position". Is the Restatement really the original Berean basis of fellowship?
A clarification for my Berean associate Jim Phillips:
Mar 25th 2007 I was doing a search in The Berean magazine archive and found what I can only describe as... well... I should have known. The Berean community has evolved more than I realized. I found the Berean magazine in 1928, a time when there were three joint editors, advocating the same fundamental principle I have been advocating in opposition to the modern Berean Fellowship (actually I found it being advocated twice). The new material on this Q&A is a must see:
Mar 24th 2007 The Berean Restatement claims to be the "Always-Held" Berean position on fellowship. The Q&A that deals with this question now has images from 1923 and 1926 Berean magazines which show the original Berean basis of fellowship. The images are nothing special in that the statement shown in the images ran every month for years in the Berean magazine. I just randomly chose a 1923 issue and a 1926 issue to show you what Bereans were originally saying. Fellowship Questions and Answers updated:
I was looking at an old Libronix search I had done of The Christadelphian magazine looking for the term "rejecter" in any relation to "enlightened, knowledge, light, conviction, judgment, resurrection". I realized that the search terms I used were incomplete and so the results were missing most of the search hits. I've updated that search and reposted it here. If you view the report, notice the search results prior to 1893 -- the results prior to the controversy. Look at the result for 1890, vol. 27, Page 114. It is a little odd reading brother Roberts' comments, knowing that in a few years the "settled" question would be challenged by one he had so closely worked with (and who had taught the same thing himself). Also, notice the quote from 1888. Well, anyway, I had to update the report and wanted to note it here for any who are interested in the results.
Mar 19th 2007 Fellowship Questions and Answers updated or added:
Mar 15th 2007 A new question added to Fellowship Questions and Answers:
Mar 12th 2007 I was reading from The Christadelphian for 1886 last night and ran across something brother Roberts wrote about fellowship. It got me to thinking down a line of thought I had not traveled before. It is a line of thought that is, in itself, completely devastating to Berean claims about worldwide fellowship (as they understand the phrase) and "the pioneer position on fellowship" which they claim to uphold. A new question added to Fellowship Questions and Answers:
Question: Did brother Roberts work to establish a common Statement of Faith for the brotherhood?
Mar 10th 2007 Four new questions added to the Atonement and RR Questions and Answers page. Mar 2nd 2007 Some may like it. Others definitely won't. That's nothing new. So what is? A Personal Note to Friends and Seekers
Mar 1st 2007 Adobe Acrobat & Reader version 8 are not currently compatible with The Christadelphian Bookshelf. There are some serious bugs in the latest release (8.00) from Adobe and my suggestion is that users avoid this updated version until Adobe releases bug fixes. I will post information here as it becomes available.
Feb 22nd 2007 My article entitled Understanding Self and the World We Live In has been updated. There is a dated note near the top explaining why and where the changes were made.
Feb 21st 2007 Following independent requests from two brethren, who are both trying to work out the same problems, I have put together some thoughts on "The Mind of Christ". Topics covered include Internal Tempter or External Tempter and other related topics. This is a draft version and I invite questions and comments on the topic.
Feb 20th 2007 I have added a Question and Answer about the phrase "fellowship without exception"
Feb 19th 2007 Feb 2nd 2007 Jim Phillips and The Berean Ecclesial News (February 2007 on fellowship)
Fellowship Questions and Answers Updated with some important questions and answers.
Jan 30th 2007 Questions and Answers on The Atonement and Resurrectional Responsibility updated.
Early Christadelphian Expositions on "As in Adam all die"
Nov 10th 2006 This letter from brother Thomas to brother Roberts is one I have always found encouraging: "A Good and Useful Man". Nov 4th 2006 Questions and Answers Regarding Fellowship started. Oct 24th 2006 I've made a lot of updates to the Christadelphian timeline. A lot of new events and quotes along with source references for many of them have been added so that those who want to look up the events or quotes have the references needed. Creating a multi-paged document of this timeline is a time consuming process so this is a single image / single page PDF version available only from this link for now: Updated Christadelphian Timeline
Update #2: Statement #5 of the 1882 Westminster London Statement of Faith added. This ecclesia was started in 1882 and Arthur Andrew was a founding member. JJ Andrew was scheduled to give the opening lecture at its inaugurating meeting (though he fell ill and his brother had to take his place). JJA was a regular lecturer there.
Oct 10th 2006 On Naming Names Sep 27th 2006 The Danger of Going Too Far in Our Demands on Fellow-Believers by Robert Roberts
Sep 9th 2006 Correspondence with Jim Phillips, a Berean, now closed. My claim is that Berean Fellowship (along with Dawn, Old Paths, Maranathan and the other multitude of separatist Fellowships) doctrines and practices, despite claims of the Bereans, are not those of John Thomas and Robert Roberts. I recognize that the burden of proof rests upon me since I issued the claim. If I did not believe the evidence was clear and indisputable I would not have issued the claim, and I would not have issued the claim at this point in time except that a Berean challenged me on a representation I made concerning his Fellowship book. I also recognize that my arguments may not immediately be received by Bereans, but I have no doubt that in the end, whatever the issues are, good and honest hearts will prevail. Please view my key claim, which I personally believe is impregnable. Here are my "summary proofs". I made a lot of additional arguments in the correspondence and Answers to my Twelve Questions which are not found in the summary such as Autonomy vs. Control and Withdrawal vs. Excommunication. Also covered is the false doctrine of "Fellowship Without Exception" which is the keystone of all separatist Fellowships. My final response is located here.
Sep 6th 2006 Sep 5th 2006 Sep 4th 2006 Sep 2nd 2006 Aug 7th 2006 Aug 6th 2006 Aug 5th 2006
- Jim Luke, Brian Luke and John Martin Indirectly Accuse John Thomas, Robert Roberts, H.P. Mansfield et al. of Being Berean, Old Paths or Unamended
- "Two Forms of Sin" -- Is It Andrewism As Clean-Flesh Teachers Claim? Updated to supply context of quotes with page images
- Formatting for the Twelve Point Summary published by H.P. Mansfield cleaned up.
Aug 4th 2006 July 25th 2006 July 22nd 2006 July 19th 2006 July 15th 2006 July 14th 2006 May 20th 2006 May 12th 2006 May 11th 2006 April 24th 2006 April 21th 2006
"You must expect opposition & detraction if you stand for the truth. And the opposition will come from pretended friends of the truth; & under pretense of zeal for the truth, & assumed fear that you will do harm. All sympathizers with the Old Mother & her Daughters, & their innumerable progeny, will cry out against harshness, exclusiveness, & all that sort of thing. Nevermind. Heed them not. You can do no good in trimming your sails to their breeze." (John Thomas to Robert Roberts, March 1865)